Attention is getting a lot of attention, but it’s not always what it’s cracked up to be. Craig Brommers, chief marketing officer of American Eagle, in an Advertising Week New York session on Tuesday provocatively titled “Pay No Attention to Attention,” pointed to YouTube as an example.

“I don’t mean to start throwing darts at certain advertising platforms,” Brommers said, before throwing one. “But, you know, YouTube to me is an infuriating ad product because it actually blocks me from what I want to get to. As a brand marketing team, we’re looking at how do you add value to whatever the journey is,” as opposed to simply measuring whether people watched a pre-roll ad.

Brommers had kinder sentiments for other platforms on the attention front. “We know what kind of creative really works for Gen Z. It’s authentic. It hits fast. But there’s value-add to it,” noting that this often describes TikTok creative.

Brommers also argued for marketers putting aside money for experimentation—which he said can bring wins on attention and more. On Monday, American Eagle launched a program on BeReal for that reason, he said. “The first day was amazing,” he said, though it’s too soon to tell how it will work out overall.

Read more from Ad Age: BeReal and brands

He also noted that an experiment with virtual reality stores on Snapchat not only yielded attention—in the form of 10-minute sessions for a Gen Z customer base with an average 8-second attention span—but also sales.

“Now it’s part of our tried-and-true strategy,” he said.

Read more: Brommers on back-to-school marketing 

On the other hand, despite the recent resurgent hype around QR codes, Brommers isn’t buying it. “In my industry,” he said, “I’ve never seen QR codes work. Never.”

Brommers is something of a rare quote machine in a world of panels where people tend to play it safe (making it hard to, um, pay attention).

“I was sitting around a campfire last week with a bunch of other marketers when someone threw out a provocative thought starter: That brands exist to sell the same shit at a much higher price,” Brommers said at another point in the panel. “Now, I’m not sure I completely agree with that, and the product engine of American Eagle definitely does not agree with that. But I do think it’s an interesting and provocative thought.”

It’s a thought, he added, that has bearing on the value that the American Eagle brand—and its ability to turn attention into intention—could have as it competes with the likes of fast fashion retailer Shein.